Is Greentree Elementary the only school that teaches math using Math Investigations? This is the stupidest method for teaching math, it's even confusing me and I'm very good in math. I only know how to teach the "old school" way. I have done some research and found that there are no concrete studies showing math investigations works. California tried it back in the 90's and they saw a 50% increase in college students requiring remedial math years down the road. 

We're all doing it... but I like it. :) 

I hate it. It's stupid! My kid can do math in his head like nobody's business, so it just seems like busy work to him. This stuff is too time consuming and confusing. I was trying to show him the way I learned when I was a kid and he had no idea what I was talking about. 

All elementary schools in the district are using it. I used to hate it but am getting used to it. 

My kid can do math in his head like nobody's business

Actually, investigations promotes mental math. It is partly about being able to visualize the value of numbers. 

If it is taught well, the kids will have a better understanding of math. However, it is frustrating watching them take the long road when you know the short cut is what they'll use throughout out life. 

Actually, investigations promotes mental math. It is partly about being able to visualize the value of numbers. 
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How? When the kids are using large squares, strips and small squares to add and subtract, it is near impossible for a kid to do it in their head with out messing up. There are several children in my street, my daughter included, who cannot do basic math, they are confused. No more memorizing Times Tables as well. 

California tried it back in the 90's and they saw a 50% increase in college students requiring remedial math years down the road.

No more memorizing Times Tables as well.


LOL, that's Cali for ya!! The education heads always seem to be dinking with things that work. I don't get it. Memorizing times tables is so basic and everyone will use that info through out their entire lives.

I just think it's hysterical that the more they change things up, thinking they are sooo progressive, the more I laugh that less than half of kids in TX even graduate from high school. College even worse.

Kids can now "squeak" through school and never get the basics down. So, it doesn't surprise me that they are doing this..They will give it a try with your kids, then tell you 8 years later it didn't work. If I was you, I'd bolster my kids basics with flash cards, etc, and anything else that will help them get the basics down no matter what is going on in the classroom, just a CYA for the sake of your kiddos..

Good luck and hope you both get to master that method, lol. 

I am so glad you started this thread. My 2 children have been learning this mess for 3+ years now and I am in the process of getting it removed from our school system.

I am on a fact finding mission and have more questions than answers. My oldest, who is now in Middle School was taught this method and most of her peers are/were struggling when they reached Middle School.

I have requested a meeting with the Math head at the HISD main campus and have yet to hear back from them. 

I have requested a meeting with the Math head at the HISD main campus and have yet to hear back from them.


Good for you! This is what it will
take, parents asking questions and holding them accountable.

I wonder what methods the private schools are using? Just curious.

Put their number on speed dial....and keep calling. Chaps my hide they don't call you back. :( 

If some would like to know when the meeting is, I will gladly give you a time and a date. 

I have requested a meeting with the Math head at the HISD main campus and have yet to hear back from them.
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You have full support from my wife and I. My daughter's cousin, who is the same age, can do her math with out much effort, but she attends Splendora ISD, and they teach math the old school way 

UPDATE: Left another message. 

This was a big issue on KU a few years ago. I hadn't heard much about in the last few years so I thought maybe parents had changed their stance or the program itself had been changed or modified.

Personally (as a parent with grown kids,lol) I don't think any "one" method is the salvation when it comes to teaching kids. Just like in teaching reading, some kids need phonics, some kids do better with sight words..but I think there needs to be teaching methods that expose the children to both. Math isn't any different.

I learned my times tables with musical songs..and I taught the same rhymes to my kids when they had to memorize them. I also memorized phonics "rules" and the rules of spelling and grammar..and I often go back to those "rules" when trying to proof read myself.

I think it is great for kids to use manipulatives, problem solving, and real life examples to understand how math works. I also think learning computation and committing basic math facts to memory will serve a person well.

Balance is everything in life..going only in one direction narrows the scope and meets the needs of only the few, IMO.

An old thread dealing with this topic..there are many more 

I like old school math techniques much better.

My kids don't mind the new math style, they're all doing pretty well and my son has been in honors math since 5th grade.

Thank God for my husband, because I can't help with math past 5th grade or so...lol. Sad, but true. I didn't get past Geometry and I hated it. 

Thank God for my husband, because I can't help with math past 5th grade or so...lol. Sad, but true.

Um yeah. I took it all the way to calculus (which I can never believe I did) but it's ALL GONE. I freeze when someone asks me to compute. 

If some would like to know when the meeting is, I will gladly give you a time and a date.

How did the meeting go? 

Thank God for my husband, because I can't help with math past 5th grade or so...lol. Sad, but true.

Um yeah. I took it all the way to calculus (which I can never believe I did) but it's ALL GONE. I freeze when someone asks me to compute. "
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A lot of it comes back when you have to use it. I remember in high school physics, complaining about not ever using the crap in our post high school lives. Now I am using many formulas including 360 degree momentum, airborne formulas, critical curve speed etc. 

Jetgirl, when is the meeting? 

We started attending Greentree this past January with a 1st and 3rd grader. Both are smart kids. I was worreid about this Investigations math approach. Yesterday I gave my girls placement tests from Singapore Math. I was considering using this approach with my girls. Unfortunately it will take a lot of time to try and teach them this approach while keeping up with their regular school work and actitivites. My oldest (who is GT) did not do very well on the placement test. Definitely lower than she should have and I think it's because of this "Investigations Math". The things she missed on the placement test were some of the basic type things that are not taught in Investigations like multiplying a triple digit number with a double digit number(or even a single digit number using the old basic way of multiplying and division of a two or three digit number using a long division symbol (division bracket). She has not been taught these things at all. Someone on this post mentioned "balance" and that's exactly right. I'm not saying everything is wrong with "Investigations" but there needs to be some sort of balance and "the old stuff" needs to be taught too. Kids using Singapore Math seem to do really well in math. I'm going to give it a try. 

And btw, I do love Greentree, just not the Humble ISD math. 

And btw, I do love Greentree, just not the Humble ISD math.

I am annoyed with Humble ISD's Elementary Math dept right now myself, so I think I'll just go right ahead and vent here... :)

They write our lesson plans for us and we dare not deviate from them. They provide "daily reinforcer" review pages for each day and we review them faithfully. They withhold the state adopted textbook (Envisions) from us because they're afraid we'll use it as a resource instead of the materials they provide. Then they give us a district-created assessment to see how our students are doing, and... it doesn't match what they demanded we teach! It's so ridiculously frustrating! 

I am annoyed with Humble ISD's Elementary Math dept right now myself, so I think I'll just go right ahead and vent here... :)

Sounds like they have to justify those consultant positions to me.

It is pretty sad that they don't have enough confidence in our teachers to believe they can write appropriate lessons plans for their students using the guidelines of the state and district.

I don't understand withholding the textbook either..what a waste of taxpayer money. Any good teacher knows the text book is not the entire curriculum, but it is a tool. It sounds like the district is too invested in the Investigations program to consider that there are many ways to teach concepts.

You are not the first frustrated teacher I have heard the same vent from. 

I really wish we could change things. It is now our time and money to make sure my girls have an adequate education (in math, anyway). 

Below are two links that explain Math Investigations and how frightening a program it is for our children. As a first step, I recommend forwarding to everyone you know as a way to educate parents on this program.

Young girl solving math problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YLlX61o8fg

Excellent video explaining MI
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeubbeq/ 

I hope my younger two children do not take after their mother for her math skills..lol. My Math skills are pretty much none existent with the exception of being able to balance a check book.lol.

My poor oldest DD has those very Math skills..poor kid!!! 

Subject: Update on Humble ISD's Math Curriculum - Investigations


I wanted to let you know we have been communicating with one of the Humble ISD Board Members regarding the Investigations math curriculum. He supports us in our endeavor to get rid of this curriculum. He has watched the videos and requested that we forward them to the other Board Members. This is very encouraging!


We are still working diligently on our research to prove why this curriculum is not the best math curriculum when in fact it is the worst. Our plan is to present our findings to the Board at an upcoming Board meeting.


Inform your friends and neighbors as we may need a petition signed by as many people as possible.


Sincerely,




Sonia and Gino Calderone 

My six year old was doing some simple addition for homework last night. She had to add two numbers whose total was greater than ten. She ran out of fingers, so she was filling up the page with pictures of hearts(!). Often, the pictures were arranged into a square, which looks to me like they are trying to lead them into simple multiplication. That's not going to work well when they get to bigger numbers.

I sketched a quick number line for her and showed her how to stack the numbers and use the number line. She liked it so much and thought it was so easy that she began inventing dozens of problems and solving them on her magna-doodle. I had to make her stop so we could do her reading!

I'm still going to attend the meeting that I have scheduled with her teacher and the school math lead that I alluded to in the other thread, but I must say that I am not going in with high hopes. What I have already seen from my daughter dashed them. I don't even care about the first grade curriculum any more. What I will be looking for is times tables, long division, money, face clocks, fractions, decimals, etc in the later elementary grades, all of which Cy-Fair ISD had taught me by third grade in the 80's. 

"Often, the pictures were arranged into a square, which looks to me like they are trying to lead them into simple multiplication. That's not going to work well when they get to bigger numbers."

I tutor a few students. I taught them integer operations with the simple operation rules, but the teachers told them to forget that in favor of the pictures. Funny thing is, when using the colored dots (one color for positive integers, another for negative) they still have to use the rules for subtraction - SOO...same, opposite, opposite ...leave the sign of the first number alone, change the minus to a plus, change the sign of the second number.

The rules are simple. If adding numbers with the same sign add the numbers, carry the sign. When adding numbers with different signs, subtract the smaller number from the larger, carry the sign of the larger number.

Drawing the dots takes a long time. Add 1045 + -286. Use dots, or use hearts. I dare you. 

So let's be clear about this. We're not dealing with 1045 blue hearts being added to 286 red hearts and then crossing out equal numbers of each until there is only one color left. Even THAT would make more sense than MI.

What MI says you should do is draw one blue heart, four blue smilies, five blue puppies, two red stick figures, eight red smilies, and six red puppies. Now I cross out one blue puppy for each red puppy until there are only blue ones left. WAIT! There are more red puppies than blue puppies! We need to carry a smilie, but which one? Dang it, I need another sheet of paper!

AAAAAAAAARGH! 

**Humble ISD Board Meeting Tonight**

If you have concerns about Math Investigations, please plan on attending tonight's board meeting. Two parents will be presenting their concerns and findings.

Humble ISD Board Meeting

Date: 10/11/2011 7:00 PM
Board Room of the Administration Bldg.
20200 Eastway Village Dr. in Humble 

Investigations was one of the main reasons we pulled our kids out to homeschool them this year. I will say that for my son who had almost exclusively Investigations for math (the others were older and had other math instruction and one is Kindergarten this year), I am finding HUGE gaps in his math knowledge. He also tested G/T in math, thankfully, so he is catching on quickly. 

Does anyone know what happened at the board meeting? I wanted to go but it was a little too short notice for me! 

We totally hit it out of the park!

The packets handed out to the board, the video, the presentation, the chart, the number of parents attending (about half the room) all came together nicely.

The feedback from the board was overwhelmingly positive, too, except for the stubborn superintendent who saw fit to lecture us about "balance". We still can't figure why he is so far in the tank for MI.

Things are just getting started, but we have strong movements from the bottom up (parents) and the top down (the board) now. 

A Math Investigations meeting has been scheduled! It will be hosted by the administration this coming Monday, December 12 from 6:30-8:00 at Creekwood Middle School.
Please come and please SPREAD THE WORD. The administration has stated they've received few complaints about the math curriculum. It seems that communication is an issue. Consequently, we would like parents who have concerns to attend the meeting. Thank you! 

You should show them Cscope math curriculum (barf)...which is what my district adopted a few years ago. It's horrible and the kiddos cry because they can't do it. I'm all for teaching with manipulative etc, but Investigations and cscope are horrible and sometimes not aligned with the TEKS.

I'm going to assume the reason they adopted this is the same as my district for cscope. Someone from TEA saw HHS and other schools NOT make acceptable for TAKs,therefore they had to bring in a cross curriculum. Also with teachers being alternative certified this is a good "guide" for them.

As a parent it is FRUSTRATING...I hate not being able to help my daughter since I don't know the way she is being taught...I had to request a "text book" for investigations!

Good luck in your fight to get these horrible curriculums out of our schools! 

Bumping - we need this program out of our schools! Our teachers can't fight with us on this one because they are afraid of losing their jobs. Please come to the meeting.

This is just one horrifying quote about the MI program - directly from their own website.

"No one true reality exists, only individual interpretations of the world. These interpretations are shaped by experience and social interactions. Thus, learning mathematics should be thought of as a process of adapting to and organizing one's quantitative world, not discovering preexisting ideas imposed by others"

OMG - just can't believe this. We are talking about elementary math. Yes, 2+2=4. Always has, always will. That is one true reality!! 

oh me
oh my

r they still teaching math in school?

i thought the calculator did away with that nonsense 

"No one true reality exists, only individual interpretations of the world. These interpretations are shaped by experience and social interactions. Thus, learning mathematics should be tought of as a process of adapting to and organizing one's quantitative world, not discovering preexisting ideas imposed by others"

What exactly does that bunch of mumbo jumbo mean? 

Why couldn't this meeting be held any other month than December? We have a preschool program that night. I'm afraid lots of parents won't be able to make it just because of holiday commitments.